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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:12 pm
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Drives: Cinquecento sporting(POLLY)
Completely overhauling the suspension including all bushes, mounts etc.

I just want a bit of advice on the spring/damper units???

Want to use the car for a bit of track fun, but don't want it too undrivable on the road.
I don't want to spend much, but would rather spend a little more on something good, rather than crap.

I was looking at these with a new set of topmounts : http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 1331977180

any opinions more than welcome. Pics too would be good so I can see how she will sit when lowered!


Thanks :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:50 pm 
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That it expencive for -30 drop ....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Jatkinson wrote:
That it expencive for -30 drop ....


what would you suggest instead? baring in mind i am used to jap cars where everything is really expensive, i dont know what prices i should be expecting to pay or what is any good for the Cinquecento!?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:21 am 
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Location: Wollaston, Northamptonshire
Drives: Cinquecento and Punto
You can get a a set of lowering springs at a fair price here http://www.carparts-tuning.co.uk/Suspen ... -40mm.html

You could then buy a set of shocks from somewhere else, these good value German gas shocks seem to get good reviews but i'm not sure what they would be like compared to a premium brand, they are standard length. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4X-SHOCK-ABSO ... 56626673d4

The German gas shocks also come in a kit with lowering springs and shorter shocks etc http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sport-Suspens ... 54061213f3

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:10 pm
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Location: Northwich, Cheshire
Drives: Cinquecento Abarth 1242
lazybones51 wrote:
You could then buy a set of shocks from somewhere else, these good value German gas shocks seem to get good reviews but i'm not sure what they would be like compared to a premium brand, they are standard length. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4X-SHOCK-ABSO ... 56626673d4


They were ok when i had them fitted, fine for road use but a bit rubbish if your going to do a trackday. Also with my -60mm springs they were far too long and the spring rattled around.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:59 pm
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Location: Glasgow
Drives: 899 Cinquecento
lazybones51 wrote:
You can get a a set of lowering springs at a fair price here http://www.carparts-tuning.co.uk/Suspen ... -40mm.html

You could then buy a set of shocks from somewhere else, these good value German gas shocks seem to get good reviews but i'm not sure what they would be like compared to a premium brand, they are standard length. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4X-SHOCK-ABSO ... 56626673d4

The German gas shocks also come in a kit with lowering springs and shorter shocks etc http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sport-Suspens ... 54061213f3


I got those on the Rear, seems fine. I only have 40mm springs on it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Drives: Cinquecento sporting(POLLY)
what setups are people using themselves when lowering?

no one seems to want to commit to saying they have this and its good or they have that and its crap!?!?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:59 am
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Location: Roundabout City (Milton Keynes)
Drives: Seicento Sporting
i got the whole Apex kit in 2007. -40mm for a non-sporting 899cc no anti-roll bar.

I really enjoyed the handling, but when I changed the wheels to 185/50/14 with yoko A539s it was pretty amazing. I was living in a village but working in Milton Keynes so got a mixture of country roads and fast dual-carriageway roundabouts (chicanes :)).

Dampers failed in 2010 (due to not fitting new dust rubbers back in 2007) and I couldn't get any Apex or Gmax etc, so I got the bottom rung Spax adjustables. Not sure if mine were faulty but the stiffness was far too much even on lowest adjustable setting. Corners were a bit bouncey instead of smooth with the original shocks. Country roads were lethal.

Have now fitted the whole lot to a 1.1 sporting with ARB.

I think the ARB might be changing the front/rear balance and the handling seems a little off. If the Spax were softer and I could then adjust them harder I might be able to find a sweet spot, but the original Apex kit on the 899 was still the best around the roundabouts and the country lanes for me.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Drives: Cinquecento sporting(POLLY)
thanks :)

good bit of info there. i know the drop on the apex kit isnt loads, but its not all about scraping the floor ;)

found some mixed reviews on the £200 ta-technix suspension. none say they are great, the best i found was that they are ok for the money.

car will be coming off the road for the work to be done soon as its creaking and squeaking so bad i think it may fall to bits!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:21 am 
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Drives: Cinquecento 899 sx
I'm running a sei abarth arb, Cinquecento 60/40 gmaxx, gas kyb shocks front and German tuning rear oil shocks. Also have 5.5j wheels with a different offset / wider track! Perfect town handling and that's with budget tyres!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:19 am 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
Drives: Cinquecento sporting
Does here anybody ever fit HARDER springs!

I guess this stuff is just not available and possibly never has been.

Lowering the car on new soft wobbly springs doesn't help much, it just means the car hits, or runs on, the bump stops, causing a very harsh ride. Which is what mine is doing.

I' like firmer and taller (than the whatever mm drop my Apex kit are) springs with decent shocks valved appropriately.

Not available it seems.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:00 am 
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Location: Roundabout City (Milton Keynes)
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yes, any name-brand shortened springs are also stiffer afaik

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:30 am 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
Drives: Cinquecento sporting
I am, in effect, a Koni dealer and the springs supplied in the Koni sport kits for some cars at least, are made to be about the same spring rate as original but sit the car a bit lower.

They would give the task of testing and approving the kit to some 'tuner' or parts dealer.

I measured some springs for the Renault 5GTT, IIRC, they are about 110 lb/inch. Directly the manufacturer of the Koni springs told me they are about that also. Years earlier I had some 180 lb/inch spring made for me which transformed the car, so I upped it to 250 lb/inch which was a similar order of magnitude better, obviously a harder ride, but at last the car started to corner and handle not rubbish. The problem that starts to arrive at this point is the shock absorbers are biased for a soft spring and consequently have a certain pre-set firm bump resistance and soft but sometimes adjustable rebound resistance. The firm spring needs the bump resistance to be softened and the rebound firmed. Koni would do a custom re-valving on the front shocks for the 300lb/inch springs we started to use on those cars. I last year found a thread about some Clios using, IIRC, 400lb/inch springs with suitably valved shocks.

But very few people on these car club forums seems to have the vaguest clue about suspension in any regard and it doesn't matter how many time it's spelled out for people in general, they can't understand, even though it's very simple.

That sadly means there little of nothing worth buying off the shelf. Anything decent has to be custom specified and personally tested and set up.

The other point to make is that lowering a car often means the wishbone geometry is no longer correct and the cars often have less grip on corners due to the tyres going onto their edges instead maintaining the full width of the tyre on the road.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:35 pm 
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interesting stuff Ian, i was basing my opinion by the different levels of travel when "sitting" on a corner, and that they are normally called "uprated" springs (i think) though that is a vague term.

My Spax shocks are adjustable rebound only...so does that mean I can't really adjust them to suit the car? I guess the force of a bump is much greater than the force of a dip (just gravity on the wheel plus a bit of shock pressure).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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If the springs are lower and the car rolls onto it's bump stops then it will travel less. That's what normally happens unless the bumps stops have been shortened. Sometimes then the shocks hit their internal end stops. Sometimes the firmer shocks reduce the roll a bit. "Uprated" is such a grossly misused term. They only way to know if the springs are firmer is to know their spring rating (and the OE), and no-one states that in their ads. It was not all that easy for me to get the data from the Koni Kit spring manufacturer as they didn't seem to know it!!! If they don't, then no seller will.

And then there's progressive springs.

I expect those Spax don't exert pressure. Only the ones that include inside them a bag filled with gas can push the rod back out. Some Bilsteins do push out very hard. My old ex Tarmac Rally ones didn't push in even with my 11 stone weighing on them and, when fitted, raised the car up a bit. Other than that it's the spring the pushes the wheel back down. Possibly assisted by an anti roll bar. At 9.81m/s² gravity has almost no effect.

Koni told me the point of the adjustment is to offset wear over the lifetime of the shock. You start on full soft and turn it up as it wears.

So yes, you can't ideally suit shocks like those to your car and harder springs. You can only set the rebound up to be near what feels right. The car will bounce a bit too much on the up movement from bumps. If set too hard for the springs, the wheel will leave the ground over hollows, when they should drop into them and maintain grip.

Better shocks are adjustable for both, but very expensive. Bilstein told me they would valve a monotube shock to suit the customers needs. They are not adjustable so may need a second adjust by Bilstein to fine tune it.

When I had Spax on my 5GTT they were ridiculous. Too hard in both directions causing the car to bounce on the pneumatics of it's tyres. Right up in the air and off the road on tight lanes at speed! I had to drive 20mpg slower. Took them off and used the rally Bilsteins at the rear and some Koni sport at the front with the hard springs. Wanted some Bilsteins for the front too with even harder springs but money didn't allow.

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