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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Location: Teesside
Drives: Panda 100hp
Cinquecento cam:

Inlet opens 7' BTDC closes 37' ABDC (224')
Exhaust opens 37' BBDC closes 7' ATDC (224')
Overlap 14'
Lift 8.55 mm
Base circle 29.2mm
Lobe height 38.2mm
Tappet clearances - Inlet 0.40mm, exhaust 0.50mm (+/- 0.05mm)

Punto 75 cam:
Stamped '866' on the cam - also fitted seemingly at random to some Punto 60s:

Inlet opens 7' BTDC closes 41' ABDC (228')
Exhaust opens 43' BBDC closes 5' ATDC (228')
Overlap 12'
Lift 9.5mm
Lobe height 39.0mm
Tappet clearances - Inlet 0.40mm, exhaust 0.45mm (+/- 0.05mm)

MPI Sei / MPI 1242 8v Punto cam:
Mine was stamped '4x4', as in New panda.

Inlet opens 2' BTDC closes 32' ABDC (214')
Exhaust opens 30' BBDC closes 4' ATDC (214')
Overlap 6'
Lift 7.65mm
Base circle 29.2mm
Lobe height 37.3mm

So out of the stock cams, the 75 one is the best for power. It certainly makes a difference in my MPI seicento!

If anyone has any more info, please feel free to post.

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Last edited by fixitagaintomorrow on Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:49 pm 
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So, is the timing for the 866 cam applied to a Sei (or Cinquecento) when fitting this item, or do they remain the same?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:55 pm 
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The keyways in the pulleys are in identical places. You just line up the original timing marks, check the clearances and go.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:30 pm 
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I guess this may be the effect of modern emissions regs, but those look like really mild timing numbers. Going back some time I remember most cars were about 240-250 degrees of duration, a mild fast road aftermarket cam was about 270, and a hot fast road cam about 285.

Does anyone offer fast road cams for these engines, and will the car still be able to pass the MOT emissions test? (Would need a remap or aftermarket ECU of course).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:06 pm 
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If you can actually get one into the country, Colombo and Bariani do 268 and 280 cams for the FIRE engines. 280s do seem to push it a bit far for emissions, mpg and smooth idles though.

John 'Nitrane' had a cam custom reprofiled, iirc.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Location: Middlesbrough Drives : Mk2b Punto Sporting
fixitagaintomorrow wrote:
If you can actually get one into the country, Colombo and Bariani do 268 and 280 cams for the FIRE engines. 280s


Beware like, the importers I used were a joke, got messed about, and after about 6 months got my money back, they were useless. Took the money, had poor communication, and a huge lack of customer service :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:30 pm 
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Location: Lancaster
Drives: Cinquecento
my 280 cam is great :D :D :D :D :D i love it


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:33 pm 
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How does it fare for mpg - and emissions come MOT time?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:55 pm 
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Drives: Cinquecento
MPG...im not sure,i dont really bother with it,i just fill it up when it needs it and Emissions....well it smell rich,but i dont need to wory about that when it comes to MOT :wink: :wink: :wink:

Does give a good sound even tho me exhaust is blowing atm and power comes in about 4500rpm


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:45 am 
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fightingtorque wrote:
I guess this may be the effect of modern emissions regs, but those look like really mild timing numbers. Going back some time I remember most cars were about 240-250 degrees of duration, a mild fast road aftermarket cam was about 270, and a hot fast road cam about 285.

Does anyone offer fast road cams for these engines, and will the car still be able to pass the MOT emissions test? (Would need a remap or aftermarket ECU of course).


That's exactly what I thought when I read the numbers.
I'm more used to A series engines.

The standard cam for a 1275 has 230 inlet and 252 exhaust

The MG Metro cam has 252 inlet and 268 exhaust.

My Kent 266 has 260 inlet and 270 ehaust and it sailed through the emission tests in the MOT.

I wonder if it's all tied up with the injection. Does a big cam change need a reprogrammed computer?


Pete, can you get offset keys or vernier pulleys for these engines. I've found in the past that even OE cams need timing in to some extent.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:08 am 
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Ian wrote:
fixitagaintomorrow wrote:
If you can actually get one into the country, Colombo and Bariani do 268 and 280 cams for the FIRE engines. 280s


Beware like, the importers I used were a joke, got messed about, and after about 6 months got my money back, they were useless. Took the money, had poor communication, and a huge lack of customer service :roll:

That wouldn't be a Wakefield base firm? :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:16 am 
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Duration isn't the end all of anything, in fact the actual lift profile of the cam has a huge effect on how problematic it is. IIRC the cam I had reprofiled for a previous car was a 278/290 & was engineered for a very wide torque band with smooth idle, emissions weren't a problem as long as it was mapped properly.

To get the most of of any cam you need to remap the ECU, the bigger the change from stock the more you gain from a post-cam install remap.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:47 am 
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You can get vernier cam pulleys from Avanti and Piper:

http://www.clubcento-forum.co.uk/viewto ... t=puldfire

Spot on with the remap. Even after putting a 75 cam and a BMC filter in mine it feels fluffy at times. Already booked in for a remap.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:29 pm 
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POWL wrote:
Duration isn't the end all of anything, in fact the actual lift profile of the cam has a huge effect on how problematic it is.


You're quite right. Especially with electronic fuel injection which can help to smooth out what might otherwise be a lumpy cam BUT the timing figures do give you a rough idea of what to expect from a cam and what might be mild or wild.

Nowadays cams seem to be ground with shorter timings but higher lifts giving good cylinder filling but without the loss of torque at lower revs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:00 am 
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fixitagaintomorrow wrote:
Cinquecento cam:

Lift 8.8 mm
Lobe height 37.3mm

MPI Seicento / MPI 1242 8v Punto cam:
Lift 7.6mm
Lobe height 37.3mm


Unless i am missing something really obvious how do these two cams have the same lobe height but have different lifts? Only thing i can think of is the diameter of the MPI cam is bigger, ie bigger base circle?
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I am only asking as i still want to pursue the toilet roll holder idea :D

Image from Chevyhiperformance.com

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