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 Post subject: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
Drives: Cinquecento sporting
I'm thinking of replacing the Apex Shocks with Koni.

I wanted Sport (Yellows) but they were discontinued a year ago for Cinquecento or Sei.

They only offer the new STR.T which apparently are the same as the Sport shock on their softest setting.

Anyone here have any experience of this? Ie, Sports on their softest setting.

And compared to the Apex shocks, of which my left front is leaking, hence the need to do something about it.

Thanks.

PS: I did a search but there's not much there.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:12 pm
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Location: Surrey
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have a look at Spax?

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:17 am 
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Thanks Rob.

Currently I can get the Konis at the price the dealers pay. That's a lot less that retail. I probably won't be able to get that with Spax.

I just went for a drive in a Smart. Quite a bit quieter, smoother, easier and less stress. Lower running costs. The Cinquecento's noise is getting on my nerves. Especially there's a lot of front and rear boomp over every bump.

There's a list of stuff that needs fixing that is getting longer and as the value of Cinquecento's is more or less nil it's seems like a poor investment to spend anything on it. If I bought new Konis oir Spax and changed my mind I'd struggle to get anything for them I'd guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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I found this thread where people disagree over setting those Spax to fully hard, medium, or that fully soft is too hard.

http://www.forum.clubcento.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4206&p=38732&hilit=Koni#p38732

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Ian S wrote:
I found this thread where people disagree over setting those Spax to fully hard, medium, or that fully soft is too hard.

http://www.forum.clubcento.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4206&p=38732&hilit=Koni#p38732



interesting, my spax came off a seicento

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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Yes, I someone on here told me they were interchangeable, and then I saw the same part numbers for shocks for both cars.

They do (or did) Bilstein B6 for the Sei. Better then the black ones which I think are B4. But probably not really what we're looking for as they're apparently as soft as OE. Might want the harder setting B8 or something like that. B12. I don't know. But I do know the asking price is near the value of a reasonable condition Cinquecento :(

Edit: I read in a sales blurb that the B6 are at least 30% stiffer that OE.

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Last edited by Ian S on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:19 am 
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Location: Roundabout City (Milton Keynes)
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I had Apex or Gmax all round but the front shocks died and I couldn't get replacements, so I got spax with rebound adjustment but even on softest they are much harder than the previous and country roads became more dangerous. The are still pretty good and fun on the grid roads (MK) but it would be nice to have that kind of performance at mid or high settings and be able to tone it down for country roads

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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Was that with standard springs? Apex lowering springs? Spax springs, if they supply them?

I can get Koni STR.T for a very good price at the moment. But this suspension conundrum is an imponderable due to lack of data.

How much difference do the bump stops make? How many of you cut 40mm off them?

My fronts were cut and the rears not and it sits on them, but even the front has only about 20mm travel before hitting them. So that's just rubbish if the roads are not like a billiard table.

So irrespective of the shocks, the bump stops might be the only thing I'm feeling and are what control the character of the suspension.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Location: Roundabout City (Milton Keynes)
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I had a full -40mm set from Apex or gmax (cant remember) but wasn't a sporting, so it's 20mm lower than a sporting i think. As per instructions I cut the bottom off the bump stops on all 4 corners.

Its possible my spax struts were faulty, they were just incredibly hard and have only softened a little over the 2 years I've had them. There's no actual bounce on any corner and I'm not a light person :)

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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Thanks. So I presume the springs went on with the nnnx shocks and you cut back the bump stops then too.

Then fitted the Spax. So that means the Spax had an effect in their own right.

I seem t recall that the Spax I had on the 5GTT had extra bump stops of their own which had a disastrous effect, removing rear suspension travel and making the rear of the car bounce up in the air on the tyre pneumatics. Utter garbage which I took off and replaced. The fronts lasted only a few 1000 miles before the left one leaked and stopped damping.

From new, the Sporting is 20mm lower than the non sporting I think. So 55mm lower than a non sporting with an Apex, etc, spring kit?

Do you recall how much you cut off the bump stops?

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:56 am 
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Location: Roundabout City (Milton Keynes)
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the bump stops have sections, like if you pressed 2 squash balls together, and I cut the bottom section off as per instructions in the nnnx kit

the spax definately had an effect, but on my particular car it was detrimental giving a bouncey effect on some corners whereas the nnnx shocks just gave a smooth response. MY spax were rebound adjust only afaik, so maybe having bound adjustments aswell would let me tune it better.

If you get a -35mm spring kit for a sporting it will be -55 lower than a non,

if you get a -35mm kit for a non-sporting it will be 15mm lower than a sporting

I think they are all interchangable so a -40mm sporting == -20mm non-sporting

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Location: Eastern London / West Essex
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Unless the shocks are different lengths, or the mounting points are different, it's the springs that set the height.

So an Apex spring kit will result in sporting and non sporting being the same height.

So if that's the case they'll drop the sporting 35mm and drop the non sporting 55mm.

I can only guess that if you had non sporting bump stops, they may be 20mm longer. So with some cut off, they may still be 20mm longer?

Do you happen to know how much clearance you have between the bump stop bottom the shock top? IIRC, when I looked mine was about 20mm at the front and about 5mm (or less if car full of petrol or / and driver, etc) at the rear.

Sound like I should avoid Spax then as I have very rough lanes around here.

I might see if I can take off the rear bumps stop and see what the effect is.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:20 am 
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what I meant was, if you got a kit that advertised as "-35mm for a cento Sporting" then you could read that as -55mm if you owned a normal.

"So an Apex spring kit will result in sporting and non sporting being the same height." Not if you had "-40mm spring kit for Sei Sporting" and "-40mm spring kit for Sei (non-sporting)" - the sporting kit would be 20mm lower

When I was looking back in 2007, both types were advertised, but as they are the same shape/mountings etc I felt they could be interchangable.

IIRC, the bits I cut off the bump stops were about 40mm high.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Did you have a -40 non-sporting kit? Or sporting kit? We can only guess if the bump stops are longer or not on the non-sporting and might need another 20mm removing to use what would amount to -55 with a sporting kit.

Mytheroo wrote:
my spax struts have only softened a little over the 2 years I've had them.
That's what happened to mine. It was wear. IIRC I did about 11,000 miles on them before I changed, and some 1000's before that the left front had largely stopped damping and that corner's wheel would bounce uncontrolled under applying power.

I can only guess that either the valving's spring(s) soften or misalign, or the seals wear and the oil bypasses the valve.

IIRC it looked like about one 'squash ball' had been removed from the front bumps stops. Of course doing this means the stops compress quite a bit less under the same load and so the ride become quite a bit harder.

I looked at some replacement bump stops from Powerflex, it probably was. They did some foam stops which had progressive rates, the idea being that one could tune the rate of bump stopping. A bit pricey for an experiment though so I didn't do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni Shock absorbers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:13 pm 
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hi, I got the -40mm non-sporting kit.

I dont expect the bump stops to factor into the ride, I only expect them to be active during extreme, non-expected road conditions. Am I wrong there?

not quite sure what you are saying about my quote. Mine have done the opposite to yours if I read it correctly :), I still get no bounce using my not-negligible body weight trying to sit on the car, but under hard slow speed cornering I can get some bounce occasionally, but it feels more like bouncing on a restrictive strut pressure than on a spring if that makes sense. I don't have an anti-roll bar and roll isn't huge.

When I first fitted the nnnX kit I didn't replace the ripped rubber protector things and thats why the front shocks died quickly, cus grit got in and destroyed the oil seals.

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